Allyson Lack & Pamela Zuccker photo by Julie Soefer

Principle is the collaboration between Allyson Lack and Pamela Zuccker. Together they have produced noted campaigns, identities, publications and more for a diverse range of clients including Chronicle Books, Napastyle, Nordstrom, Texas Children’s Hospital and Larson-Juhl.

AIGA Houston’s John Luu was able to stop by Principle’s Houston offices to speak with the two partners about design and their inspirations, how they collaborate from different cities, and what they look for in a student design portfolio.

John Luu
When did you guys first get into Design?

Ally Lack
I was doing a business degree at the University of Maryland and was really uninspired with my accounting and finance classes. I went to my counselor in crisis-mode, declaring “What am I going to do? I’m halfway through a business degree!” and she said; “What do you like to do?” and I said, “Well I really have an interest in art but I don’t know exactly what…” and she said “Well why don’t you start taking some classes?” Did that. Took a few random electives and found design via a really wonderful professor who pointed out “You’re not really a fine artist, you’re probably better suited for graphic design”. I was fortunate to land a student job on campus at University Design Services, creating posters for the student union, and other collateral that was university-based and I was in love with it. I finished the business degree and minored in design. Then I went on to Portfolio Center in Atlanta to hone my skills. So it was a career shift mid-undergrad. That’s my story. Pam?

Pamela Zuccker
I studied at the University of Michigan. I have a bachelors in Fine Arts, so the majority of my four year education was in fine arts and not in design. I was introduced to some graphic design classes in my Junior going into Senior year and it really opened up a new world for me. I knew by the time I was finishing undergrad that I needed to pursue more design education to land a great job and so I went to Portfolio Center immediately after graduation. I also did an internship in an advertising agency which was more of an eye opening experience in terms of what the design field had to offer.

John Luu
And how did you guys meet?

Ally Lack
I was at Portfolio Center in my last quarter, and Pamela had already graduated but was returning for a recruiting trip. She plucked me out of PC and I came to work with her at Rigsby Design

Pamela Zuccker
So having that Portfolio Center background in common was really significant. We had a shared experience even though we weren’t there at the same time and it still means a lot to us actually.

Ally Lack
When you go through Portfolio Center, you often know what you are getting at the end— you know the regime this person has been through, and what they can do as a designer. And so, that was kind of the start of the relationship.

John Luu
How did Principle come to be?

Ally Lack
You want to hit it Pam? (laughs)

Pamela Zuccker
Sure! We had both gone out on our own and left the firms where we got our start. I think the realization that we were individually doing national work (and wanted to continue to) yet the jobs were becoming more difficult for a one-man show to manage propelled us to consider partnership. When we formed, there were three women in the group (certainly three women can conquer a whole lot more than one woman) so it was really a strategic decision about the kind of work we wanted to do in our careers. Ally?

Ally Lack
I think you said it very succinctly.

Pamela Zuccker
Of course I think that the camaraderie of having a partner, the constructive criticism, the constant critiquing between Ally and I, and the back and forth, makes the work better. It’s not really all that fun to design in a bubble when you are independent. If you are an independent, you look for a trusted colleague to share and discuss work. So there’s this huge payback that affects the quality work and the success of your business when you have a partner.

Ally Lack
I guess we should add an interesting point, which is that we were in different places. It never really struck us as an issue because we formed the business that way and we structured it to work from different locations. Actually, it is a great advantage in getting more national accounts because you have studios in different locales, which gives you a larger presence and clients know “one partner can always get to us.” And of course, technology made it possible. Ten years ago, fifteen maybe, it would not have been so easy.

John Luu
Actually that touches upon my next question. When I was reading your bios, you both had well traveled backgrounds; Baltimore, Cleveland, Quebec, Houston, Philadelphia… what’s it like working in two different cities on a day-to-day basis?

Ally Lack
Living in different places always informs you in different ways. It inspires and influences your work in different ways too. Regionally, there are distinct styles and various kinds of design going on. In Baltimore, for example, there’s a certain vibe and a lot of institutional work going on whereas down here it might be more corporate overall. But we both love to travel abroad. I think that inspires our work. Working in different places gives us a greater sense of what’s going on nationally. What do you think Pam?

Pamela Zuccker
Yeah, and I also think we didn’t know differently. We started the business this way. Our challenges are different from other peoples’ challenges that share an office. We’re really disciplined. You outline what needs to get done that week and who’s doing what. It works for us to design/strategize separately and come together again for critiques. Even under one roof you design on your own then collaborate with an art director or a few designers who might also be on that project. So you still need to go back to your desk for a few quiet hours and come up with something wonderful. I think that a little time alone where no one is looking over your shoulder is great, and then we say ‘We’re talking at four o’clock today.’ We’re just really structured about how we function.

Ally Lack
The beauty is having both solitary space AND the ability to pick up the phone or send a PDF, excited to share your direction. And you’re ready because you had the space to create.

Pamela Zuccker
We try to come up with a lot of ideas in that first incubation period and it’s really fun to work separately and then reveal ideas. In the beginning, I can’t wait to see what Ally has come up with.

John Luu
Going back to something you said earlier, you mentioned that collaborating offsite has been made a lot easier with new tools and technologies. Are there any specific ones that Principle has found to be really helpful in closing the gap geographically?

Pamela Zuccker
We’re using what everyone else is using pretty much; applications like Skype, email, FTP and FedEx.

Ally Lack
We’ll do video chat from time to time. I mean sometimes I’ll hold something up to the camera and say “Look at this. Isn’t it wonderful?” That’s instantaneous, instead of having to scan something and try to put it together on screen. The biggest advantage is how technology helps us go faster, at a distance.

John Luu
So you two use Skype everyday?

Ally Lack
Oh yes.

Pam Zuccker
We’re really casual on Skype, we save email and conference calls for clients because it’s a true documentation trail and a more formal communication tool with clients.

John Luu
If you guys had three words to describe Principle what would they be?

Pamela Zuccker
That’s hard. I think we’re forward thinking. I mean, we’re so used to our setup of not being physically together that quite frequently people ask us “But how do you do it?” They email us asking “Can I talk with you? I have a partner that is somewhere else and we’re thinking about starting something similar.” This kind of interest in the fact that we’ve never been in the same zip code has certainly been part of our identity at Principle.

Ally Lack
So “Forward thinking” is one. I think we’re also “Tactile” would you agree Pam?

Pamela Zuccker
Absolutely. I think the craft of everything we create is incredibly important. All the work, every little detail; from the paper, to the embossing, how things open, the form of it. We’re trained as print designers, so it’s really this love of going to press and all the details involved with the creation of the piece. That’s what we mean by the tactile experience.

Ally Lack
So “tactile” is more about the work, “forward thinking” is more of a global thought, so what’s the third? Detailed? Yeah I think so. Tactile. Detailed. Forward Thinking.

Pamela Zuccker
To some, detailed is going to press checks, making sure there’s a perfect PMS match. But for us, when you’re in charge of the financial side of the business, and you’re in charge of selling and marketing and what comes off the press, you’re wearing all of these different hats. Being super detailed oriented with all of these different aspects is really important to make a business successful.

John Luu
One thing I noticed about your work is that it’s got a very fresh but timeless quality to it. Can you guys go into your design process a little bit?

Ally Lack
Regarding the quality of our work, I would say that typography for us is paramount. I mean a lot of things are, but I would say that one of the things that connect our work, from one project to another, from one medium to another, is probably strong typography.

Pamela Zuccker
I think that’s true. I also think what’s important about the initiation of every project is a design brief. We don’t start with a look and feel of what form the design might take until there is a sure understanding of the creative brief. Many times a brief does not exist and a client comes to us not knowing what they want. The brief is a written statement of an agreement of what we’re setting out to do because if that doesn’t exist, and very rarely it will, you will waffle around with the design. You never really know what it is that you’re solving because the client really hasn’t been clear in what they’ve asked you to solve. So I think that the design really comes quite a bit later and then you have a great documentation to refer back to once you are presenting design because you can say “Hey, we all agreed on this and here is how the design correlates to the brief.

Ally Lack
We never sit down and say “Oh my god, we have this new client, and they need this! Let’s make them this!” That conversation never happens until all the information has been gathered and then it’s usually so clear which way we can take them, and it’s usually in a different direction. It’s never like “Here’s our chance to do a purple pocket folder!” It’s never that way.

John Luu
I looked on Principle’s Facebook page and it said that you were attending AIGA’s Make | Think Conference in Memphis, for you what were the standout presentations or workshops that you saw there?

Ally Lack
The emphasis on sustainability was pretty heavy.

Pam Zuccker
The Living Principles were pretty exciting.

Ally Lack
Yeah The Living Principles were probably the most exciting, informative, “what is next” and what’s happening in AIGA. And then again, there’s always the entertaining, unexpected speakers, like fine artists that you don’t necessarily think would be really relevant to our field but you start listening to them and you start listening to their way of thinking and it makes you say “God, there’s so many different ways to think about creativity.” and it’s so refreshing. For example, there was an artist who spoke about his obsession with circles. At first I was thinking, “where was he going with this?” After he walked us through his vast body of work, I said, WOW. The simplicity of a circle was woven into everything he thought about, and everything he created. The work did in fact speak to us as designers. Sometimes you don’t want to see a carbon copy of yourself or someone in your own niche. That’s why I think these conferences are so great; you can look back and say I can really approach things differently. I think The Living Principles were more like, nuts and bolts, this is what’s going to happen, the next phase of how to be a good designer and how to be a thoughtful designer and a responsible designer. There were other speakers that were entertaining but those were two very different presentations that we both liked.

John Luu
How long have you both been members of AIGA?

Pamela Zuccker
Since college. So probably since 1995.

Ally Lack
I would say since 1998.

John Luu
What do you two get most out of AIGA?

Pamela Zuccker
I feel it is so important to have a professional organization to be our voice. It’s a resource of many things— like branding terms or how to talk to clients, professional ethics, etc. There’s this whole professional assistance it provides you on a local level. It can also just be fun, we go to national conferences and it’s a great time to share with people in our industry.

Ally Lack
It’s also an opportunity for us to get together because we do need face time, we don’t run this business entirely from two locations, we are getting together for client meetings in different cities or our annual Principle retreat, location always TBD. So conferences for us, AIGA being a big one, are opportunities for us to get together and say “Let’s have 3 or 4 days of just intense … us.”

Pamela Zuccker
Also we both want to support an organization that exists to further graphic design whether they’re creating a national design policy or working on sustainable practices that designers can incorporate. The national dialogue is really important to us.

John Luu
My last question would be do you have any advice to young designers still in school or just starting out in their careers?

Pamela Zuccker
A ton. We look at portfolios a lot but Ally why don’t you start?

Ally Lack
I think the one thing we see a gap in usually is what students create on the computer and how that translates into reality. So I would say that students need to learn or expose themselves to production because while that computer is one fine tool ultimately there is a gap. Usually the students that stand out to us are the ones that understand type. There are other things to understand but when someone has mastered a sense of typography and scale, that always speaks to me. The other thing is just really being a people person. I mean this is a business that has a sales component to it and you need to be able to speak about your work and you need to be thoughtful, clear, and confident and a lot of art students tend to be apologetic about their work, the comp that has glue on it or whatever, I just want to see somebody come in and have a lot of …ooomph.

Pamela Zuccker
I agree. Also, when you say ‘what do you want to do?’ At least have some idea of what you’re passionate about. I also think it is a really competitive industry right now and that being aware of where you stand, as far as your portfolio, is important. I think a lot of professional designers are willing to give their time and either mentor a student or go through a portfolio. If you don’t have a snapshot of what is happening nationally and what portfolios look like outside of your school, it’s going to be difficult to see where you fit in this industry. I think when we were at the AIGA review in Memphis, we were looking at several student books and they varied tremendously. Students should have an idea of what kind of work should go into your portfolio and who your competition is. If you see certain schools rebranding the Olympics and your doing the local pet shop identity, it makes you stop and think. I think it’s important for students to see the difference.

Ally Lack
Some of these student books are so ambitious and then others look like they threw their book into a Kinko’s loose leaf. There’s a huge gap really between certain skill levels. I do think students should get some professional advice. Don’t go on your first interview as you’re actual first interview. Go do some informational interviews during your senior year, I think that would be a huge help. Everyone should do three informational interviews before they go on a real interview. Because we get some designers fresh out of school and they don’t know how to present, they’re looking at the floor, and they don’t know what typeface they used. You’ve got to have a command over what you’re doing as a designer and be able to speak about it.

Texas Children's Maternity Barricades

Chronicle Books // French General Series

Chronicle Books // French General Series

Paddywax Classic Collection

Chandos Interiors ID System

Nordstrom Gift Cards

To learn more about Principle please visit their website at www.designbyprinciple.com or click here to become a fan on Facebook.

If you would like your studio featured on AIGA Houston please contact John Luu, info@houston.aiga.org for more information.